Building Hawaii Wrestling

Give your high school or alumni a shout out! Talk about high school sports in this forum.
Leftfieldcoachlikeu
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Leftfieldcoachlikeu »

wrestling808 wrote:
1hawaii wrote:Is that the number wrestling808? 250 to start and 100 to maintain. A school like Chaminade has chosen to have athletics. They have woman's basketball, golf, cross county, volleyball and tennis. In a state like Hawaii we send our best wrestlers to the mainland. The 20 plus programs on the mainland all think it is money well spent. Most of the colleges are in states that don't even have girls sanctioned high school wrestling. Finally are Hawaii's 10 best runners going to Chaminade? Are the Tennis stars coming out of Hawaii signing with Chaminade? Do you think it is silly to propose woman's wrestling? How good would a Hawaii be with our top 10 stars on it? Is it a waste of time to even discuss it on a forum. You would think a college that just happens to be in a state with world class female wrestlers might want to take advantage. It makes business sense to serve the market.

Finally, I know you were just making a joke but I have daughters who wrestle. If Chaminade or HPU had a woman's wrestling team they may just get $250,000 from me after all. All joking aside I will gladly cut a check to any Hawaii college program. In fact, count me in as a future booster, season ticket holder, and proud sponsor. Wouldn't you?
Enough talk, Enough posts... just do it.
Ummmm....how are you supposed to do it without talking about it?

Kama
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Kama »

Leftfieldcoachlikeu wrote:
wrestling808 wrote:
1hawaii wrote:Is that the number wrestling808? 250 to start and 100 to maintain. A school like Chaminade has chosen to have athletics. They have woman's basketball, golf, cross county, volleyball and tennis. In a state like Hawaii we send our best wrestlers to the mainland. The 20 plus programs on the mainland all think it is money well spent. Most of the colleges are in states that don't even have girls sanctioned high school wrestling. Finally are Hawaii's 10 best runners going to Chaminade? Are the Tennis stars coming out of Hawaii signing with Chaminade? Do you think it is silly to propose woman's wrestling? How good would a Hawaii be with our top 10 stars on it? Is it a waste of time to even discuss it on a forum. You would think a college that just happens to be in a state with world class female wrestlers might want to take advantage. It makes business sense to serve the market.

Finally, I know you were just making a joke but I have daughters who wrestle. If Chaminade or HPU had a woman's wrestling team they may just get $250,000 from me after all. All joking aside I will gladly cut a check to any Hawaii college program. In fact, count me in as a future booster, season ticket holder, and proud sponsor. Wouldn't you?
Enough talk, Enough posts... just do it.
Ummmm....how are you supposed to do it without talking about it?

I don't believe that "Wrestling808" understands that the preceding posts are simply talking points. I do feel that this discussion had interesting beginnings but is now moving in circles and going nowhere.

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

Kama: I respect your opinion on this forum and wanted to address your original college comment. Having a college wrestling program in Hawaii would be huge. Since UH adding a D1 wrestling team seems impossible, I thought a woman's program at a small college made more sense. Then later we could add a men's program if it is successful. How do you think we could do it?

The hope for this thread was to brainstorm ideas, discuss and debate the best goals, come up with a plan, and (yes wrestling808) do it.

I put out a plan;

1. Oahu; we need to unite our youth wrestling.
2. Maui; do youth freestyle and Greco
3. Big Island and Kauai; youth wrestling season please.
4. High School coaches; Wednesday night duals Saturday tournaments.
5. Anyone; Middle school wrestling?
6. Everyone; Come together for states May 9 in Maui and June 5-6 in Oahu.
7. Maui only; don't for get the secret dual team in Idaho June 10-20.
8. Lil dreamers; please come to Western Regionals.

Let's add 2 more then:

9. Girls wrestling community; partner up with WCWA and pitch a Honolulu college.
10. Pay and support referees during HFUSAW season. Subsidize travel to regionals and nationals.

*Frozen3
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by *Frozen3 »

1hawaii wrote:So woman's wrestling has been pitched to BYU-Hawaii, Chaminade and HPU? What was their response? How did it go? What are the obstacles in the way right now. Let's set it up now and she can be the coach.


We talked about it several times but, it has not been pitched as of yet. I told her there needs to be a lot of planning, researching and a good proposal to the schools in order for them to even consider it. Plus the $$$ factor.. That is one of her goals though to bring a collegiate woman's wrestling program to our state after graduating from college.

She is currently wrestling in college and from her experience, the difference between high school wrestling in Hawaii and college wrestling in the mainland is WAY different. I don't think our coaches in Hawaii prepare our kids for College wrestling. (Some may, but not all- I dunno) The training, cardio, maintaining your weight and just keeping up with the mainland kids is first then getting on the mat learning their techniques and different styles is another thing. First of all, women's collegiate wrestling is FREESTYLE. Here in Hawaii the high school wrestling program is FOLKSTYLE. So, if you are not prepared for it, you are already behind. Just my thoughts though..

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

Thank you for the info Frozen 3. Maybe a college program is just waiting for someone to ask. I guess wrestling808 is right, just do it and ask. Gotta be someone better then me to represent our girls wrestling community? Alo's coach? Does HFUSAW have a girls coach? What about Clarissa Chun? Only get one chance at a first impression.

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/74980 ... -QiVqq9LCQ

Dream Big Hawaii
Work Hard Hawaii
Shoot for the Stars Hawaii

If you go for 1st and you fall short you get 3rd.
If you go for 3rd and fall short your off the podium.

Tom Brands

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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Pun Dad »

The success of Hawaii girls at national tournaments and the success of those few girls who do wrestle in college indicates that Hawaii does prepare girls for the college level. But most choose not to wrestle, as they academics and locations of the college with women's wrestling programs are less than desirable. I do not think the academics at BYUH will change the decisions of for these student athletes.

Nick M
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Nick M »

Some great points in this thread. I live in Texas (just outside of Ft. Worth) and we have had/still have our struggles. There are some similarities with our states as far as how healthy or unhealthy our wrestling is.

We too have our share of HS coaches who did not wrestle in HS. They will teach a headlock and a cow catcher and have the team lift weights 5 days a week. Most people think that since we are so close to Oklahoma, we would have more and better wrestling. Newsflash we don't! The HS wrestling in Texas is only in the big cities/metropolitan areas.

1hawaii I read where you asked several times if BYU-Hawaii has been approached about adding Women's Wrestling. Keep in mind that BYU-Hawaii still has to answer to the folks in Provo, Utah. Many years ago, BYU had a Men's Wrestling team. It was coached by Olympic Gold Medalist Mark Schultz. Mark never had more than 1 paid full time Assistant Coach. The administration did not really care about wrestling, they even had an AD who wrestled for BYU! They ultimately dropped the program, citing budget concerns and they might have even mentioned the dreaded TITLE IX. BYU-Idaho formerly known as Ricks College had Men's Wrestling too. They were actually good! You might have heard of one of their wrestlers...Rulon Gardner. Ricks College dropped the program before it became BYU-Idaho. I would not waste ANY efforts on BYU-Hawaii.

All is not lost though. Do yourself a favor and DO NOT APPROACH THE AD ABOUT ADDING WRESTLING. They don't care and adding another program just means more work for them. Your best angle is to approach the President of the school. They are concerned about adding more bodies, which in turn means more $$. Enrollment based schools are the perfect fit for adding a Men's or Women's program. The NAIA has been adding programs every year for the last 5 years or so based exactly on that.

Wrestling808 stated that it would cost about $250,000 to start and $100,000 for travel and coaching salaries (I could be wrong on his exact numbers). The NAIA has been starting up teams for far less than that. They have been getting these teams 2 brand new mats, uniforms, warm ups, headgear, and all the other necessities for about $25,000. The school starts out with a Head Coach which is paid between $40,000-$50,000. Coach gets a GA for the first year, pending on how many kids he gets, the school gets him a paid Assistant. The tuition for these schools is around $28,000-$38,000 a year. The coach brings in 30 kids at $30,000=$900,000! After you take out the start up costs and salary, you still have around $500,000. With these numbers the President looks like a genius, because he is offering new opportunities, bringing in more students, and more importantly he is making more money for the school. Enrollment based schools are the way to go. Arkansas has been doing it this way and they now have programs at the following levels: JC, NAIA, D3, & D2 schools with wrestling and one Women's program.

I agree that the first national tournament you go to should NOT be Fargo. Your ROI is usually not that great. Sure you can chalk it up to a "learning experience". But you can find different learning experiences where you actually get the opportunity to execute what you have learned. I host a Folkstyle summer dual tournament the last weekend of July. This year I had 15 teams from 8 states, getting 14 duals in 2 days. There are 14 total weights with the lightest at 90 pounds and going to 285. I WILL ALLOW YOU TO USE YOUR MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS THROUGH TO YOUR OUTGOING SENIORS!
I had over 100 State Qualifiers, over 50 State Placers/Champions, and 2 nationally ranked kids. I had 4 college coaches that were scouting and trying to build for the future. I have discounted rooms for only $42.50+tax, and you can stack 4 kids in a room for that price. That breaks down to $12 per kid, per night. I want a team from Hawaii in this summer's field! You can make an All-Star team of kids that don't go to Fargo, or it can be a HS team too. I can help fill in holes with kids from other teams or locals. If you are interested please PM me.

It sounds like Hawaii is going in the right direction, there will be some learning curves along the way. Keep it up!

Thanks,
Nick M.

Nick M
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Nick M »

Some great points in this thread. I live in Texas (just outside of Ft. Worth) and we have had/still have our struggles. There are some similarities with our states as far as how healthy or unhealthy our wrestling is.

We too have our share of HS coaches who did not wrestle in HS. They will teach a headlock and a cow catcher and have the team lift weights 5 days a week. Most people think that since we are so close to Oklahoma, we would have more and better wrestling. Newsflash we don't! The HS wrestling in Texas is only in the big cities/metropolitan areas.

1hawaii I read where you asked several times if BYU-Hawaii has been approached about adding Women's Wrestling. Keep in mind that BYU-Hawaii still has to answer to the folks in Provo, Utah. Many years ago, BYU had a Men's Wrestling team. It was coached by Olympic Gold Medalist Mark Schultz. Mark never had more than 1 paid full time Assistant Coach. The administration did not really care about wrestling, they even had an AD who wrestled for BYU! They ultimately dropped the program, citing budget concerns and they might have even mentioned the dreaded TITLE IX. BYU-Idaho formerly known as Ricks College had Men's Wrestling too. They were actually good! You might have heard of one of their wrestlers...Rulon Gardner. Ricks College dropped the program before it became BYU-Idaho. I would not waste ANY efforts on BYU-Hawaii.

All is not lost though. Do yourself a favor and DO NOT APPROACH THE AD ABOUT ADDING WRESTLING. They don't care and adding another program just means more work for them. Your best angle is to approach the President of the school. They are concerned about adding more bodies, which in turn means more $$. Enrollment based schools are the perfect fit for adding a Men's or Women's program. The NAIA has been adding programs every year for the last 5 years or so based exactly on that.

Wrestling808 stated that it would cost about $250,000 to start and $100,000 for travel and coaching salaries (I could be wrong on his exact numbers). The NAIA has been starting up teams for far less than that. They have been getting these teams 2 brand new mats, uniforms, warm ups, headgear, and all the other necessities for about $25,000. The school starts out with a Head Coach which is paid between $40,000-$50,000. Coach gets a GA for the first year, pending on how many kids he gets, the school gets him a paid Assistant. The tuition for these schools is around $28,000-$38,000 a year. The coach brings in 30 kids at $30,000=$900,000! After you take out the start up costs and salary, you still have around $500,000. With these numbers the President looks like a genius, because he is offering new opportunities, bringing in more students, and more importantly he is making more money for the school. Enrollment based schools are the way to go. Arkansas has been doing it this way and they now have programs at the following levels: JC, NAIA, D3, & D2 schools with wrestling and one Women's program.

I agree that the first national tournament you go to should NOT be Fargo. Your ROI is usually not that great. Sure you can chalk it up to a "learning experience". But you can find different learning experiences where you actually get the opportunity to execute what you have learned. I host a Folkstyle summer dual tournament the last weekend of July. This year I had 15 teams from 8 states, getting 14 duals in 2 days. There are 14 total weights with the lightest at 90 pounds and going to 285. I WILL ALLOW YOU TO USE YOUR MIDDLE SCHOOL KIDS THROUGH TO YOUR OUTGOING SENIORS!
I had over 100 State Qualifiers, over 50 State Placers/Champions, and 2 nationally ranked kids. I had 4 college coaches that were scouting and trying to build for the future. I have discounted rooms for only $42.50+tax, and you can stack 4 kids in a room for that price. That breaks down to $12 per kid, per night. I want a team from Hawaii in this summer's field! You can make an All-Star team of kids that don't go to Fargo, or it can be a HS team too. I can help fill in holes with kids from other teams or locals. If you are interested please PM me.

It sounds like Hawaii is going in the right direction, there will be some learning curves along the way. Keep it up!

Thanks,
Nick M.

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

Thank you Nick M for your positive and constructive post.
I think our high school girl wrestling programs are great. It is just a matter of bringing a full line up of girls to Fargo or Girls Nationals in Oklahoma. Logistics is the big enemy. Organization and consistent communication is the solution in my opinion.

Thank you for the BYU advice. HPU looks like the best candidate. Pitch the president not the AD sounds good too. I know woman's college wrestling could work out here. Again whatever argument is made for any woman's sport program at HPU could be made for our sport.

If I had it my way Hawaii would bring out their boys to Western regionals in ID and their girls would go to Folkstyle Nationals in OK.

Only Hawaii's best and experienced would AND should go to Fargo.

Nick M
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Nick M »

I understand sending your best to Fargo. What about the next tier? What do they do?

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

They are starting to go to their regional. Very similar to your duals and then the regional tournament is 3 styles. It's a good value and has a wide range of wrestlers. The Team Hawaii Fargo coach took a good group to Westerns this year and plans to go again. This year Western Regional Duals is June 19-20 and Western Regionals is June 21-27.

Some high schools go to summer camps and clinics here and on the mainland.

Youth clubs have a few more options and some go to Reno Worlds or USA Nationals too. Can't go wrong with those.

Also Hawaii; NCAA is official! 4 D1 programs throwing down @ McKinley Gym December 30th. Not sure why it isn't blasted by the powers that be but for what it's worth... Blast! Blast!

Nick M
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by Nick M »

Sounds like a good plan. Keep in mind that there are other great tournaments out there that are not sanctioned by USA Wrestling.

Going back to your other point about coaches not working together, that problem is prevalent in Texas as well. It appears in areas where wrestling is strong, coaches work together better.

Having a dual or a tri during the week is a great way to get the kids more matches, gets the word out about our great sport, gives the parents an opportunity to watch "Johnny" wrestle without all of the confusion of a tournament. To those who say that they don't want to make weight more than once a week, then it appears that they are not properly managing their weight. The benefits outweigh the cost for sure.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

I forgot to mention that the Freak Show, US Open and the Ultimate Alliance are 3 great tournaments in Vegas too. We are always up against the cost of a flight. Gateway cites are half the price of inland airports for us. Getting to Texas is twice as much as getting to Portland.

Nick M,
If you hear of any deals into Dallas let me know. Sounds like a trip to Girls Folkstyle Nationals is going to happen in Oklahoma City, OK March 27-30. If so I'm going to help out and take a few girls. Do you think we should drive up from Dallas? Have you been to that tournament?

1hawaii
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Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling

Post by 1hawaii »

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/25 ... -Highlight

How is Flo growing wrestling? With Effort and Enthusiasm! Let's do this Hawaii the season is here the time is now!

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