Saint Louis Browns

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Poltclyrrational
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Saint Louis Browns

Post by Poltclyrrational »

Can the public opinion get any worse for Saint Louis? The are worse than the Cleveland browns. What a joke, firing their AD? They've changed their AD more than all the other schools combined. Saint Louis Browns.

Can Cal Lee do it again? This ain't old Hawaii anymore.

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rednblue
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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by rednblue »

Your opinion is not necessarily the public's opinion.

Poltclyrrational
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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by Poltclyrrational »

It may not be necessarily the publics opinion...but you can't deny the fact that they hire and fire AD's and football coaches just as much as the Cleveland Browns hire and fire coaches and front office guys...and we know how that story ends...

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by rednblue »

Poltclyrrational wrote:It may not be necessarily the publics opinion...but you can't deny the fact that they hire and fire AD's and football coaches just as much as the Cleveland Browns hire and fire coaches and front office guys...and we know how that story ends...
Okay, I don't understand your point in bringing up the Browns. Professional sports teams have constant turnover in not just the coaching staff and front office but in they're roster every offseason as well. The Browns, have never been a successful organization to begin with ether with 0 Superbowls.

Saint Louis, however, has a very strong and proud tradition that holds high expectations for they're administration, devotion to Catholic Faith and eduction, development of character into a Saint Louis Man, as well as they're athletic department. The biggest and most influential change by far this year was Pat Hamamoto stepping down. What you may not have noticed was that when she took over as principal, there was mass turnover in faculty, the student enrollment dropped, the Schools debt increased, and in turn alumni support decreased.

Since we're speaking on firing ADs and football HCs I'll leave off Todd Los Bonos who left as AD in 2008 to take an executive position at The Children's House school, Delbert Tengan who resigned in 2008 (after 25 years at the school) as the basketball HC as well most likely because he was passed over for Ulima Afoa as AD, and Darnell Arceneaux who resigned abruptly before the 2012 season from his 2nd stint as HC because of some speculation and/or complaints about coaching staff behavior.

ADs Ulima Afoa ('08-'10) and Ed Paola ('10-'14), and HCs John Hao ('08-'09; 15-6 overall; 10-6 ILH) and Matt Wright ('12-'13; 11-8 overall; 1-7 ILH D1) were either not retained or asked to resign. The competitiveness of the athletic program, though passable by other schools, did not meet the standards at Kalaepohaku. The coaches' records, though good enough for other programs, did not meet the expectations at Kalaepohaku. As an alum, I wouldn't expect you or anyone else not associated to understand.

Here are some excerpts from former coaches:

"We have high expectations every year at Saint Louis and it's tough. It'll continue to be like that."
-Darnell Arceneaux

"To be a prolific high school and not win, getting let go wouldn't hurt my feelings. If you win, enrollment comes up."
-John Hao

We are not ignorant to believe that Cal Lee will bring back the days of old or remotely replicate the results of his previous tenure at Saint Louis. But he does have the full support of the school's administration and more importantly the alumni to provide hope for not only a better football program, but to entice a larger turnout for the struggling enrollment.

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by Poltclyrrational »

All very good information inside of Saint Louis' point of view. The reason I compared them to a football team is because of Saint Louis' dependency on their football team. Maybe not the Browns, but how about the Raiders? Theyve had past championship runs and have fallen on hard times. When you compare the struggling teams of the NFL and their movements vs. the perennial contenders like the Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers, and New England Patriots who trust in the guys they hire to do their job even in down cycles vs. firing them (not counting those who leave on their own for better opportunities) you can see why some teams continually stay on top, and some teams end up like the Browns and Raiders.

What I wonder about is if Cal Lee's return will lead to him having the ability to dictate admissions and financial aid with the administration. I don't think it's a bad thing if he has some influence, all schools need to cater to the gifted athletes, but I wonder if it will be as powerful as before.

In your opinion, is Pat Hamamoto stepping down a step in the right direction for Saint Louis? I don't know. Can Saint Louis justify its 13,000 tuition on just it's football program without keeping a high academic standard? (One of the reasons it appears to be that Ed Paola got fired is because he put too much emphasis on the academic side and the athletes didn't like it.) just curious on how a Saint Louis alumni feels about the changes going on.

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by budsdad »

I think it's kind of obvious how alumni would feel about the changes. The bigger question is how the current tuition paying parents feel? If their tuition is going to have to subsidize athletes, then I'd be concerned. If for instance, there are 10 kids, and let's assume they are gifted athletes, who would like to come in provided they get significant financial aid, that's over $130,000 a year at their current tuition rate - 4 years would be over a half million dollars in aid. Can the school (or even it's alumni) afford that for the long term? Even if the aid is 50% of that (which I doubt would entice enough kids), the long-term viability of giving out this much aid doesn't make sense. Punahou, with a much, much larger student base and a carnival that raises significant monies year after year, can certainly sustain it. How can a school with 500 students sustain long term aid to athletes? And this is just one year's worth of kids. In order to keep feeding the beast (the football program), they'd have to continuously bring kids in to the point that after 4 years, when the first group are seniors, you may have over 40 kids getting significant aid.

They said that Johhny Manziel had a significant impact on Texas A & M's enrollment, as did Butler's basketball program years ago. But can the same (ie a championship football program) work for a high school at the local level? I doubt a football championship would produce a surge in non-football enrollment at St. Louis.

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by LocalCheesehead »

Poltclyrrational wrote:All very good information inside of Saint Louis' point of view. The reason I compared them to a football team is because of Saint Louis' dependency on their football team. Maybe not the Browns, but how about the Raiders? Theyve had past championship runs and have fallen on hard times. When you compare the struggling teams of the NFL and their movements vs. the perennial contenders like the Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers, and New England Patriots who trust in the guys they hire to do their job even in down cycles vs. firing them (not counting those who leave on their own for better opportunities) you can see why some teams continually stay on top, and some teams end up like the Browns and Raiders.

What I wonder about is if Cal Lee's return will lead to him having the ability to dictate admissions and financial aid with the administration. I don't think it's a bad thing if he has some influence, all schools need to cater to the gifted athletes, but I wonder if it will be as powerful as before.

In your opinion, is Pat Hamamoto stepping down a step in the right direction for Saint Louis? I don't know. Can Saint Louis justify its 13,000 tuition on just it's football program without keeping a high academic standard? (One of the reasons it appears to be that Ed Paola got fired is because he put too much emphasis on the academic side and the athletes didn't like it.) just curious on how a Saint Louis alumni feels about the changes going on.
Where are you getting your info from?? Emphasis on academics is NOT the reason Paola was fired.

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by Poltclyrrational »

LocalCheesehead wrote:
Poltclyrrational wrote:All very good information inside of Saint Louis' point of view. The reason I compared them to a football team is because of Saint Louis' dependency on their football team. Maybe not the Browns, but how about the Raiders? Theyve had past championship runs and have fallen on hard times. When you compare the struggling teams of the NFL and their movements vs. the perennial contenders like the Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers, and New England Patriots who trust in the guys they hire to do their job even in down cycles vs. firing them (not counting those who leave on their own for better opportunities) you can see why some teams continually stay on top, and some teams end up like the Browns and Raiders.

What I wonder about is if Cal Lee's return will lead to him having the ability to dictate admissions and financial aid with the administration. I don't think it's a bad thing if he has some influence, all schools need to cater to the gifted athletes, but I wonder if it will be as powerful as before.

In your opinion, is Pat Hamamoto stepping down a step in the right direction for Saint Louis? I don't know. Can Saint Louis justify its 13,000 tuition on just it's football program without keeping a high academic standard? (One of the reasons it appears to be that Ed Paola got fired is because he put too much emphasis on the academic side and the athletes didn't like it.) just curious on how a Saint Louis alumni feels about the changes going on.
Where are you getting your info from?? Emphasis on academics is NOT the reason Paola was fired.
What was the reason for Paola being fired?

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by brookecrowe »

its not depend on any opinion its totally depends on your thinking..

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by EASTHONFAN »

For all the old timaz. Watch this video of Saint Louis's come from behind victory over Punahou in the 1973 ILH championship. Video kind of long but the bias commentating, bad officiating, old school sideline action makes this video entertaining. True down and dirty old school football. Gotta thank punavision for saving this old game film. Maybe it's just me but this video brings back memories of sit on those old wooden bleachers of the old stadium. Standing in the diamond head end zone asking the players as the came off the field for half time for their chin straps and homecoming ribbons that they use to tape to the back of their helmets. Remembering the guys selling Cokes, Hotdogs, Peanuts and Chips. Man those were great times. http://youtu.be/XJkvGV7CNzY. \:D/
Last edited by EASTHONFAN on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Saint Louis Browns

Post by FASBOY'90 »

My assessment is that Cal Lee has more connections than all the other coaches who took his place after him leaving the program. He has strong ties with the alumni club and some strong political figures which probably will bring in allot of needed funding and revenue back into the program. During his last year's at St. Louis, there was only one program on the rise and basically caught up to St. Louis's dominant program, Kahuku. The rest of the other program followed through out the course of the years that past, Punahou, Kamehameha, Mililani, and Leilehua.

Now with all the changes, maybe it's for the better. Or maybe it's simply out of desperation. The fact is that a tradition of winning and success was once St. Louis. The athletes that bolted for another school reinforced the program to move backwards in the wrong direction. With the success of those athletes doing well and thriving in other programs only made the St. Louis alumni association even more disgusted knowing that those athletes was once in a Crusaders uniform.

It will be a challenge and a very difficult task to bring St. Louis back where it once was for coach Cal. But if he has the funding to accommodate many of these athletes, they will come and when that happens, It shouldn't be a problem for coach Cal to put all the pieces into the right place. St. Louis will be back on top the ILH within the next year or two. That's my predictions because of coach Cal Lee. If Darnell was still there, he probably would have won another State Title or two and basically dominated the ILH. I don't see any difference with coach Cal at the helm.

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