Advertiser Article on Transfers

[twnoexcuses]

So you still think it is harmful and uninformed to give academics more consideration than athletics in the college decision process?

That's not what you said orginally. Quit trying to be "right". That bus left a long time ago.

[unpaid]

How is it unfair or dangerous for a parent to give more priority to academics over athletics?

[twnoexcuses]

How is it unfair or dangerous for a parent to give more priority to academics over athletics?

It's not, unpaid. That would have been a much better position for you to have taken in your first post on this thread.

[unpaid]

So,if there is nothing wrong with a parent who gives some more consideration to academics over athletics ,then why do you insist I am misleading parents when I make that suggestion or get upset that someone might agree with me.?

[dirtylickens]

in my opinion, what is to keep coaches from offering parents "kickbacks" to students and parents who join there program? say we open the rules up for students to come and go as they please. If your son isn't playing at a school like Kahuku, have him transfer to Kaiser, or Mililani. I just feel like yes this has been happening in the past. Kids have been jumping ship and joining other OIA schools. But with what I have seen within the past few years, it is getting more and more abundant to see kids going to schools across town. If you we allow recruits or athletes to decide where they want to go, you will essentially have a NCAA atmosphere here in high school. We see what is happening with unions on the college level, so where would twonexcuses want to see this transfer rule stop? if at all.

[twnoexcuses]

in my opinion, what is to keep coaches from offering parents "kickbacks" to students and parents who join there program? say we open the rules up for students to come and go as they please. If your son isn't playing at a school like Kahuku, have him transfer to Kaiser, or Mililani. I just feel like yes this has been happening in the past. Kids have been jumping ship and joining other OIA schools. But with what I have seen within the past few years, it is getting more and more abundant to see kids going to schools across town. If you we allow recruits or athletes to decide where they want to go, you will essentially have a NCAA atmosphere here in high school. We see what is happening with unions on the college level, so where would twonexcuses want to see this transfer rule stop? if at all.

I'd like to see the transfer rule stop and be abolished dead in its tracks.

Aside from kids jumptng ship (which I see as a right deiived form the freedom to live where you want, and to go to school where you want as long as the system has room) aAll the "horribles" you speak of revolve around the conduct of coaches trying to get a competitive advantage through improper means, and adults engaged in improper conduct who have some sort of weird interest in the success of a high school football program. What, if there is the compulsion to do those things, do you think will stop those people from doing those things? Well, perhaps make it ILLEGAL (with jail time attached) to do those things. Perhaps make it a loss of employment offense to do those things, But not a transer rule. Those poeple will still try to do those things either through loophole or deceptions. Don't make that the problem of the kids, or the parents seeking better for their kids - which is what the transfer rule does. Deal with the problem, if there is indeed a problem. Even the NCAA has that right. It penalizes the institutions and the boosters for recruiting violations. Not the players.

So what if Kahuku, or Kaiser or Mililani have good football teams? So what? Who was the OIA West division champ in 2011? Remember? I don't.

[dirtylickens]

in my opinion, what is to keep coaches from offering parents "kickbacks" to students and parents who join there program? say we open the rules up for students to come and go as they please. If your son isn't playing at a school like Kahuku, have him transfer to Kaiser, or Mililani. I just feel like yes this has been happening in the past. Kids have been jumping ship and joining other OIA schools. But with what I have seen within the past few years, it is getting more and more abundant to see kids going to schools across town. If you we allow recruits or athletes to decide where they want to go, you will essentially have a NCAA atmosphere here in high school. We see what is happening with unions on the college level, so where would twonexcuses want to see this transfer rule stop? if at all.

I'd like to see the transfer rule stop and be abolished dead in its tracks.

Aside from kids jumptng ship (which I see as a right deiived form the freedom to live where you want, and to go to school where you want as long as the system has room) aAll the "horribles" you speak of revolve around the conduct of coaches trying to get a competitive advantage through improper means, and adults engaged in improper conduct who have some sort of weird interest in the success of a high school football program. What, if there is the compulsion to do those things, do you think will stop those people from doing those things? Well, perhaps make it ILLEGAL (with jail time attached) to do those things. Perhaps make it a loss of employment offense to do those things, But not a transer rule. Those poeple will still try to do those things either through loophole or deceptions. Don't make that the problem of the kids, or the parents seeking better for their kids - which is what the transfer rule does. Deal with the problem, if there is indeed a problem. Even the NCAA has that right. It penalizes the institutions and the boosters for recruiting violations. Not the players.

So what if Kahuku, or Kaiser or Mililani have good football teams? So what? Who was the OIA West division champ in 2011? Remember? I don't.

Everyone has the freedom to live where they want. Im not saying that if you live in Kalihi, you cant move to Mililani to have your child attend that school. My problem is more so in the examples given on other message boards where parents send one chilld (athlete) to the school across town or on the other side of the island because of there football program, and keep there other child(non athlete) in their school district. Now I may not be one to talk, because i attended a private school, but from my perspective... i envied public schools when it came to community sport. Attending a private school brings together kids from a bunch of different areas and the community support is not as strong. But when i look at schools like Farrington and Kahuku, it is something to be said for the sacrifice that these fan bases incur while supporting their community team. Now that has nothing to do with kids choosing to go to a different schools but it does have to do with programs and schools. You abolish the transfer rule, and then the enrollment process and numbers for schools are completely irrelevant. Schools will close and this will effect much more than just athletics. I agree, parents should be able to decide what is best for their children, but by abolishing the transfer rule, i feel as if students lose quite a bit of community pride. We've seen it with McKinley, Roosevelt, and Kaimuki. Im not trying to convince you either way, just trying to explain why I am against abolishing the rule.

[TheDuke]

rules shouldn't be put in place to penalize those that are moving for legitimate reasons.

You monitor the athletes and the coaches and penalize those that are abusing the system. Is it hard? Yes, it is. But you don't penalize the legit moves and transfers.

And this is HS football. It isn't that big of a deal.

[twnoexcuses]

First, if the public schools exist to ensure a sense of "community", the existence of private schools does far more to undermine that effect than abolishing the transfer rule ever could. Why do families engage in the objectively crazy act of either paying to educate their kids when they don't have to? Or go through the inconvenience of getting a kid physically to a private school outside of their neighborhood every morning if they don't have to pay due to some sort of financial aid? There are a whole lot or reasons for that, but it happens in numbers far exceeding (is my guess), anything near the number of GEs out there. I believe it is a simple matter of people believing they are doing better for their kids than their neighborhood school. Do you begrudge a kid the opportunity to attend a Kamehameha, Punahou, Iolani, St. Louis, etc., etc., etc.? Should all those schools be emptied in the name of community support?

Second, the GE process is already a numbers game. Schools don't take more GEs than they can accommodate in a total student body. ALL public high school students in the state could not transfer to Kahuku to effectively make it the ONLY high school in the State. Kahuku, Mililani, Moanalua, McKinley, etc. will only take the numbers they can. Sometimes that equals the numbers who want to attend, sometimes not. But, that has nothing to do with the transfer rule. GEs happen all the time and the numbers are gong to be the numbers. WOULD a stellar athlete receive a GE to any given school? Is he or she the 100th qualified GE applicant when there's room for only 99? I don't know. According to the system, that's up to the principal of the schools. BUT, once a student qualifies for a GE based on GE standards punishment related to sports should not be an issue unless the kid is ineligible due to grades, in school behavior or health reasons.

The transfer rule doesn't affect the number of GE slots available. It affects what happens to the kids who fill those available slots, and makes specific athletics - those played at a prior school during high school, a no no. That has nothing to do with community building. The only concern is competitive advantage (or actually preventing competitive advantage). The transfer rule is essentially to prevent "good" athletes from transferring and punish if they do. But, because the schools know they can't target those athletes and don't want to deal with the hassles implementing something akin to franchise player tags, they hit all students. Once again, they don't care if the band or science talented kid takes their talents away from the community to Kahuku or Mililani - they only care about sports figures.

Don't get me wrong. Community pride is important. But I fail to see how it's built by punishment for attempts to escape, and virtual incarceration in the community/barriers to movement out of the community. I believe a system designed to inflict harm upon or to leverage children in particular is a poor way to build community pride of any sort. Putting the existence or non-existence of community pride on the backs of athletes by punishing them for moving, makes about as much sense as doing checkpoints at the Honolulu bound windward tunnels to remove all school aged children from cars making the morning commute to town. That would keep people at their windward district schools and enhance community pride, wouldn't it? The transfer rule essentially does exactly that, except that the guards at the checkpoints are taking height, weight, and 40 time measurements to determine who to send back.

[twnoexcuses]

rules shouldn't be put in place to penalize those that are moving for legitimate reasons.

You monitor the athletes and the coaches and penalize those that are abusing the system. Is it hard? Yes, it is. But you don't penalize the legit moves and transfers.

And this is HS football. It isn't that big of a deal.

I agree. Address the actual concern. Penalize the abusers. Don't kill the reef to catch one fish.

[unpaid]

twnoexcuses,
If it is not wrong for a parent to place more emphasis on academics over athletics,why do you insist I am misleading parents when I make that suggestion,or get upset that some parents might agree with me?

[twnoexcuses]

twnoexcuses,
If it is not wrong for a parent to place more emphasis on academics over athletics,why do you insist I am misleading parents when I make that suggestion,or get upset that some parents might agree with me?

Because you didn't advise parents to place more emphasis on academics over athletics. You called parents deluded for thinking athletic scholarships were available for all but 4-5 star athletes (untrue), and that they should therefore abandon any thought of pursuing any athletic avenues (wrong). Untrue + wrong = misleading.

And, I do not know of any parents who agree with what you said originally (as opposed to what you have tried to spin your original comments into).

[eonatoa]

In the sports world, transferring is a hot topic. The NCAA has strict rules and regulations for student athletes transferring to another school. Most student athletes who transfer are required to sit out a year, this is where high school sports get the idea of sitting out. The only exemption, is for a student athlete who has earned a degree, AA or Bach, these students may play right away. The NCAA got it right, academics first. If youve done your job in the classroom, you are free to make the choices you want. If youre just looking for a better athletic opportunity, then go through the process to make sure its done right. Another thing the NCAA does is that is requires an athletic release if the student athlete is trying to transfer during the same academic year as when they were on the team.

[unpaid]

twnoexcuses,

I see. It is not enough that the thought is right.You have to approve of the person who makes the suggestion. I bet your fun to be around.

Lets talk about deluded. Parents of 4 and 5 star football athletes aren't under any delusions about whether their kids are going to get a full ride,assuming the grades are there.What parents are we talking about here.I'm thinking that a parent who has an unranked kid might have a problem.The parent might be upset that his kid didn't get enough playing time last year and tried to transfer but couldN't qualify.That'S the first red flag.If the kid isn'T getting enough playing time where he is,will he get any more at the school the parent was trying to get him into. Not likely. So how is he going to build up a highlight reel if his kid is only seeing garbage minutes.Pretty hard to get a highlight reel under those circumstances.

Better hope the grades are there.If the grades are there the kid can find a college. If the athletic ability is there,that alone is not a guarantee of acceptance.

So,what is your situation. If your kid is a 4 or 5 star,then we aren't even having this conversation. Your kid is 1or 2 star or unranked which probably is why we are having this conversation. You should not put too much emphasis on athletics.

[twnoexcuses]

twnoexcuses,

I see. It is not enough that the thought is right.You have to approve of the person who makes the suggestion. I bet your fun to be around.

Lets talk about deluded. Parents of 4 and 5 star football athletes aren't under any delusions about whether their kids are going to get a full ride,assuming the grades are there.What parents are we talking about here.I'm thinking that a parent who has an unranked kid might have a problem.

Junior College for non-qualifiers. Also, some great schools that have DII, DIII and NAIA programs.