FBS Prospect Big Board

Give your high school or alumni a shout out! Talk about high school sports in this forum.
unpaid
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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by unpaid »

Kaumatule never played a down of football for Radford...never was on the team. He was there for one year until he could go to and play for Punahou. He just passed through Radford on his way to a better deal as he saw it. Don't know what the deal was with Lui-Yuen,but your inference about Kaumatule was wrong,so you could be wrong about Lui-Yuen too. Recruiting may have had nothing to do with it.

Let's give this recruiting business a rest.Families will do what they think is best for their kids to give them a chance in life.In most cases they will do it legally,so let's not throw out allegations of recruiting with no more basis in fact than that a kid was in one feeder system and then wound up in a private school or at the high school in another feeder complex.

When I was middle school age I was living in the McKinley district,then,all of a sudden my parents move and I'm a freshman at Radford. Changing districts happens all the time,and it 's usually workaday reasons.My parents wanted to send me to private school,but not enough dough. Radford did fine by me.I'm sure McKinley would have done the same had my parents stayed put and I wound up a Tiger.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by kanakattack »

unpaid wrote:Kaumatule never played a down of football for Radford...never was on the team. He was there for one year until he could go to and play for Punahou. He just passed through Radford on his way to a better deal as he saw it. Don't know what the deal was with Lui-Yuen,but your inference about Kaumatule was wrong,so you could be wrong about Lui-Yuen too. Recruiting may have had nothing to do with it.

Let's give this recruiting business a rest.Families will do what they think is best for their kids to give them a chance in life.In most cases they will do it legally,so let's not throw out allegations of recruiting with no more basis in fact than that a kid was in one feeder system and then wound up in a private school or at the high school in another feeder complex.

When I was middle school age I was living in the McKinley district,then,all of a sudden my parents move and I'm a freshman at Radford. Changing districts happens all the time,and it 's usually workaday reasons.My parents wanted to send me to private school,but not enough dough. Radford did fine by me.I'm sure McKinley would have done the same had my parents stayed put and I wound up a Tiger.

No, I am not wrong. You are referring to Canton's older brother Luke Kaumatule, who attended Kapolei high as a freshman in 2009, then transferred to Radford for a year on his way to Punahou. Canton and Cody Lui-Yuen both attended Kapolei middle, as did Luke, and it was there that Punahou recruited Canton and Radford Lui-Yuen.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by unpaid »

Again,you aren'T providing any paperwork.or e-links or any other info that could prove your statement that Punahou and Radford recruited either of those two players. You are simply stating that Punahou and Radford recruited these two players without any documentation that any board member,or OIA official ,or anyone else for that matter could check for validity.

Your saying it happened doesn't make it true. Show some proof.Otherwise ,you'rejust talking.

And since we are on the subject of recruiting...let us really get down to it. In prep sports,recruiting is a dirty word,right...I mean it carries the connotation of something illegal to get a good player to go somewhere doesn't it?

Believe me,plenty of people are willing to blow whistles when someone screws up. I've followed prep sports in Hawaii for 45 years and I don't believe I can recall any cases where a school was found to have recruited anyone for under the table cash or whatever.Trust me , the papers would be all over that kind of stuff.

The only instances I can recall where schools get into trouble is when they don't pay strict attention to athletes that transfer in..like the situation that kept Kahuku out of the playoffs a few years ago. Nothing under the table there, the
staff at Kahuku slipped up on the paper work.

You have called out Punahou and Radford ...but where is your proof?

My guess is that you don't have any. Just so we understand,Punahou is a private school.They don't have the backing of the US government. In other words,Punahou is not free. As a private school,they have to make their own money, The way they do that is to get parents to pay Punahou to educate their children. Since they charge a lot and have been around for a very long time,things seem to be working out for the school and the families who sent their kids there.Punahou doesn't pay the families of students to make sure their kids go to Punahou,it's the other way around.in fact.

Now ,on to Radford. Well,what can we say here. You are suggesting ,that a school that bounces between D-I and D-II
recruited a kid from a D-I school pipeline to play football in the White when he could have stayed at the Red Division school. Doesn't make sense. You are gonna have to do better than say recruiting happened in either case. You got proof...hey,don't show it to me...just take it to the DOE or whoever you trust..and if it's true,...then we will all read about it in the StarAdvertiser.

Somehow ,I don't think that will happen.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by bigD »

high tuition,booster clubs and donations allows the school to create academic and athletic scholarships. Meaning some athletes do have some time type of financial aid. With only a minimum amount the schools will usually go after the best athletes and use it as leverage in landing them. Some might say recruiting others will say opportunity..

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by unpaid »

kanakattack called it recruiting.He called out the names of two schools and he called out the names of two kids.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by unpaid »

bigD says private schools have scholarships and endowments..it;s true as far as it goes,but you need to look a little deeper and find out the facts for yourself.

I've been on the Punahou website and you can find the words scholarship,funding and endowments. What is really pertinent to this discussion is the word scholarship. It is used once on the Punahou site,and it refers to funding a students exchange program for a year...that means a kid who is already enrolled is going to go overseas for 1 year of study.The kids are already at Punahou.One of the pages says 14.5 percent of students receive need based financial aid.That means that roughly around one in ten students get some help. But make no mistake.those students have to pass an exam to get into that school...and the school makes it clear that $19,200 is expected to be paid to Punahou.in installments .By the end of the year,it has to add up to the stated figure. They seem to be awfully concerned about being paid when some people think they have deep enough pockets to go get star players.My feeling is that those families that do receive aid are still paying some portion of that 19+K every year....and apparently 85,5 percent of students are being paid for by their parents.

But,since the words funding and endowment are also being thrown around to suggest that there is something under the table...here is what those words are used for at Punahou as far as I can tell from their website. Funding and endowments are used to improve academic and athletic programs and facilites only...not to recruit students.

I am saying that in this day and age,recruiting is not an accepted part of high school sports. If you have knowledge that recruiting has happened,then you need to take it to the OIA ,ILH...etc.and let them take appropriate.action.

Even though I am a public school graduate,it get's old hearing how the Big Three ILH schools are accused of recruiting.
Go to their websites,talk to some alums....see if they actually recruit 12 and 13 year olds and pay their tuition. I doubt you'll find even one documented instance.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by gridiron22 »

unpaid love your posts.

I agree that the word "recruiting" if taken literal (on the high school level) and practiced within a program is a no no and possible violation according to what ever governing body reside over that program (OIA, ILH etc).

But like any law, rule or policy in this world, there are loop holes and ways around it. For example correct me if im wrong but I remember hearing of a summer clinic for footballers that was hosted by the StLoius coaching staff? the point is that in the effort of putting a clinic together and inviting all athletes from around the state, the Coaching staff have put themselves in a position to befriend athletes and parents. With no intention of trying to recruit a star athlete, what the coaching staff at StLouis has done was break down barriers and open up opportunities.

In this case I would call it marketing but the haters of this world would call it recruiting and the schools with the most money or most resources will market better then those without it.

I have a personal example where my brothers oldest son was in line to be the starting running back his senior year at a local high school. In the summer of 2011 before the season started the coaches pulled some bs story about how another kid is going to be the RB and my nephew was going to be moved to linebacker. So my brother, very frustrated, called up an old friend that is a position coach at a Las Vegas high school and asked if they had room for a running back. The friend said come on down and even offered to let my nephew live with him.

My nephew moved to Las Vegas within a couple of weeks, sure enough some of the parents in Vegas raised a flag to the school about his transfer being the result of recruitment and football purposes. My nephew did end up going to court and proving to the judge that because he did have residency in Vegas when he was a child, the move was not just for football or recruiting. He played that season and earned a scholly to a D2 school in Cali.

The moral of my story is what I stated earlier, the program with more money and resources (or connections in the case of my nephew) will continue to be more attractive then schools with out it.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by saynotomercs »

gridiron22 wrote:unpaid love your posts.

I agree that the word "recruiting" if taken literal (on the high school level) and practiced within a program is a no no and possible violation according to what ever governing body reside over that program (OIA, ILH etc).

But like any law, rule or policy in this world, there are loop holes and ways around it. For example correct me if im wrong but I remember hearing of a summer clinic for footballers that was hosted by the StLoius coaching staff? the point is that in the effort of putting a clinic together and inviting all athletes from around the state, the Coaching staff have put themselves in a position to befriend athletes and parents. With no intention of trying to recruit a star athlete, what the coaching staff at StLouis has done was break down barriers and open up opportunities.

In this case I would call it marketing but the haters of this world would call it recruiting and the schools with the most money or most resources will market better then those without it.

I have a personal example where my brothers oldest son was in line to be the starting running back his senior year at a local high school. In the summer of 2011 before the season started the coaches pulled some bs story about how another kid is going to be the RB and my nephew was going to be moved to linebacker. So my brother, very frustrated, called up an old friend that is a position coach at a Las Vegas high school and asked if they had room for a running back. The friend said come on down and even offered to let my nephew live with him.

My nephew moved to Las Vegas within a couple of weeks, sure enough some of the parents in Vegas raised a flag to the school about his transfer being the result of recruitment and football purposes. My nephew did end up going to court and proving to the judge that because he did have residency in Vegas when he was a child, the move was not just for football or recruiting. He played that season and earned a scholly to a D2 school in Cali.

The moral of my story is what I stated earlier, the program with more money and resources (or connections in the case of my nephew) will continue to be more attractive then schools with out it.
I applaud the balanced take on the issue as well as the relevant anecdote.

However, I think that kids should be able to transfer freely between public and private schools without eligibility issues regardless if they had been recruited or not. If it's all about the kids, shouldn't we put them in the best places to succeed?

This, of course, may cause a regional imbalance with public school enrollments and resources. I propose a lottery for transfers, providing a maximum of 50 openings to destination high schools entering the 9th grade and a maximum of 20 departures from each district.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by IOneSTLFan »

Y'all be forgetting the team that be recruiting the most--Iolani. They make St. Louis look like amateurs when it come to recruiting! Kela Marciel anyone?

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by Hawaii78 »

IOneSTLFan wrote:Y'all be forgetting the team that be recruiting the most--Iolani. They make St. Louis look like amateurs when it come to recruiting! Kela Marciel anyone?
St. Louis was the "Kings" of luring parents and players in the 80's. Hey! but seriously, if you can get good education at a private school for your talents, why not-

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by unpaid »

gridiron22,

I am glad that your nephew got a chance to stay at his position.The Nevada coach wasn't looking for a player,your brother called him up.Was your brother recruiting...he was looking for a way to help his son.Was there someone to blow the whistle,yes there was. Did a kid transfer without recruiting being involved .Yes,it happened in your nephews case.

If someone has proof that Punahou or Radford recruited and feel that strongly about then they should take it to the appropriate league authorities and we will see what comes of it.

When coaches from one school run a camp,I personally would just take them at their word that they want to teach players from many different schools football fundamentals and ways to improve their play. A cynic might look at the situation and say that what is really happening is that the coaches are really getting in an extra two to four practice sessions with some of their players beyond the allowed number of practices in the spring and fall seasons.

I think financial aid or scholarships if you will are overated in terms of what they really bring to the table in terms of getting a player to come to a school.Do the math.The Punahou site says that at the start of the 2012-2013 year the school had 4.1 mil in endowment funds to give tuition assitance to approximately 320-340 of their students. Endowments are a group of funds that are managed ,in this case,to provide need-based financial aid to students toward the $19,200 tuition Punahou charges.

Last year,Punahou paid out part of that 4.1 mil to those 320 students families.The endowment can only sustain itself by investing most of the donations into financial investment vehicles such as treasury bonds,money market funds,etc and accrue interest money along with new donations .In good financial times,I estimate that a school like Punahou could spend around30-32 percent of that 4.1 million on tuition assistance.Times aren,T really good but for the sake of this example,let us say the US had a whopper of an economic year. With interest earned on the invested portion of the endowment plus new donations,they should cover the payments made from the fund last year and be around the 4.1 million mark again this fall before the 2013-2014 school year. They need to keep the fund at this level or higher because they are probably going to have another 320 or so requests for financial assistance again this year.

So how much on average did each student get towards their tuition. If Punahou spent 30 percent of the 4.1,then that comes out to $1,230,000 dollars. Dividing that by those 320 students,shows that on average each student received $3,843.75 .The family of each student was still on the hook for the other $15,356.25 to make up the $19,200 tuition. I think there were very few if any,full-rides in view of those numbers.

OK,I'm off my soapbox. Apologies to saynotomercs.This is really a prospect thread..not a recruiting,fact or fiction thread.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by Tommy »

kanakattack wrote:
DA SCOUT wrote:kapolei had a down year for recruiting last year but this year they have 3 legit D1 prospects and thats pretty good if u ask me how many schools has three ,poop its tough to have one. I am talking legit ones
Just think if Punahou and Radford didn't recruit Kaumatule and Lui-Yuen away from Kapolei middle school and they went to Kapolei high! They would have more than 3!
2007? or 2008, Kapolei had a press conference and signing for 11-12 kids that year, did they win their division? championship? What happened to those kids? How can have tons of D-1 players and not even win a championship?

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by Pun Dad »

Punahou coaches are not allowed to contact athletes or their parents unless the parent initiates the contact.

Punahou School endowment is only used for need based aid, which is solely based on parents income and number of children, it is blind to students athletic ability.

The only money hat an athlete may get that is not offered to all students, comes from the alumni associations (O-men or Paaina), not the school. This is typical only a fraction of tuition, far less money than you would guess.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by saynotomercs »

Pun Dad wrote:Punahou coaches are not allowed to contact athletes or their parents unless the parent initiates the contact.

Punahou School endowment is only used for need based aid, which is solely based on parents income and number of children, it is blind to students athletic ability.

The only money hat an athlete may get that is not offered to all students, comes from the alumni associations (O-men or Paaina), not the school. This is typical only a fraction of tuition, far less money than you would guess.
(1) I don't think people are concerned with where the money comes from.

(2) Punahou coaches who are listed as such may not make the initial contact, but the coaches ARE involved with getting prospective athletes into school. I know of an athlete's family who consulted with Ane himself.

(3) I think it's fair to say that some of Punahou's top athletes would not have gotten into the Academy if they were evaluated in the same manner as the rest of the applicant pool.

(4) I think Punahou should have the right to do whatever it wants.

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Re: FBS Prospect Big Board

Post by KOKO »

Tommy wrote:
kanakattack wrote:
DA SCOUT wrote:kapolei had a down year for recruiting last year but this year they have 3 legit D1 prospects and thats pretty good if u ask me how many schools has three ,poop its tough to have one. I am talking legit ones
Just think if Punahou and Radford didn't recruit Kaumatule and Lui-Yuen away from Kapolei middle school and they went to Kapolei high! They would have more than 3!
2007? or 2008, Kapolei had a press conference and signing for 11-12 kids that year, did they win their division? championship? What happened to those kids? How can have tons of D-1 players and not even win a championship?
Ask St. Louis

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