The Outer Island Struggle...

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alleyezonme
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The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by alleyezonme »

I think we can all agree that we have a lot of Hawaii football fans in this forum. I would also assume that we are all in the same boat or familiar with the feeling of being a non-BCS team that never gets its fair share of respect. Through the years, we’ve had many good teams that were nationally ranked in the top 25, which also included All-American/Heisman candidates. We as Hawaii fans always push for the recognition of our players/team such as All-America/WAC teams or top 25 rankings…even qualifying for quality bowls which we are deserving of. We can all find claims of being ranked higher than another team ahead of us or one of “our” players being more deserving of an individual honor. The interesting part is…when it comes to high school football in Hawaii, we ditch the Hawaii boat and a good portion of fans put on the hat of the “big boys”. After the dust settles, teams on the outer islands (KIF, BIIF, MIL) continue the fight to prove themselves. I understand history or competition has a big part of this, but when we’re in Hawaii’s boat, don’t we disclaim history and competition ourselves? It’s so funny how I see “All-Hawaii Depth Charts” and there literally is one player outside of Oahu. There’s no question that the majority of the talent in the state lies on Oahu, but if you can’t give a fair assessment of all talent on all islands…what’s a list like this worth? Let’s metion that the only non-Oahu player on the list is only on there because he had a nationally ranked combine performance…if you were judging him on his on-field performance, you would know he’s not a corner back. It definitely makes for good discussion, but don’t forget how you feel as a Hawaii fan when you choose to put on the OIA or ILH hat.

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by politclyincrekt »

Although I agree and I feel that your comparison is very accurate I would argue that the neighbor island schools, like UH, cannot compete at the higher levels. UH may be ranked high, but every time the Warriors had the opportunity to prove themselves they choked. (See: Sugar Bowl 2008, Hawaii Bowl 2008, vs. USC 2012, etc.).

I think the same goes for the neighbor islands. The HHSAA tournaments are dominated by Oahu schools. The last time a neighbor island school won the Division I state tournament was never. In the past 13 years of the tournaments history, not one single neighbor school has even appeared in the final game. In recent history:

Baldwin and Honokaa: Both lost in the first round (2010)
Baldwin and Kealakehe: Both lost in the first round (2011)
Baldwin beat Farrington in 2011 but went on to get blanked by Punahou in the semis (2011)
Kealakehe eliminated by Leilehua (2011)

And another problem is that none of these schools play the other high power teams. Living on Oahu, I find it very hard to gauge how strong these schools are compared to Oahu schools. If Kapaa beats Kalani by a single point, I'm going to assume the two schools are comparable. And if Kapaa goes on to beat the other Kauai schools, I'm going to assume all the Kauai schools are on par with Kalani or worse. If St. Louis loses a close game to Farrington, then goes on to blank Baldwin 46-0, then I am going to assume Baldwin is on par with a weaker Oahu Division I school like Kaimuki, Castle, etc.

Furthermore, looking at the stats of players, Oahu's boys are outperforming the neighbor islands by a wide margin. 4 of the top 5 division I rushers in the state belong to the OIA (Silva, Scott, Wily, and Kukahiko respectively) with the 5th going to St. Louis' Adam Noga. The top 5 passers are also in the OIA/ILH (Tuileta, Morikawa, Tago-Sue, Kaneshiro, and Kaluhiokalani).

The highest ranked neighbor island Division I rusher is Kealakehe's Lennox Jones coming in at #13. And next is Maui's Justin McCrary at #19. The highest ranked neighbor island Division I passer is Kealakehe's Jordan Cristobal coming in at #16. And the next is Baldwin's Ryan Graham at #19 (he comes even behind Leilehua's back up Levi Castanares).

Division II is a different story, however, with Konawaena coming comfortably in the top 10 in both categories (even the states #1 passer in Kahoalii Karratti). But ignoring Kona, the next top passer is HPA's Li'i Purdy at #14. And the next top rusher? HPA's Bobby Lum.

Baldwin got a lot of attention last year when they beat Farrington but lost it when they blanked against Punahou. Just like Hawaii, they have to work for the attention and publicity and, more importantly, when given the opportunity they need to perform.

If someone were to beg and whine that you are not letting them drive a car and that they can drive the car fine and when you finally let them drive they total it...would you let them drive again? Probably not.
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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by Neighbor »

Well yes but it's not like the stuff posted like the "All-Hawaii Depth Chart" is being posted in the newspaper or the magazine.
It's just a person's opinion based on what they've seen.

alleyezonme
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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by alleyezonme »

I'm aware of all the reasons for the lack of love (some good points by the way), but how do we just change hats as fans? Your post is taking the stance of proving outer island teams/kids don't compare...yet as a 2008 Hawaii fan before the Sugar Bowl, I'm sure you had many reasons to back why we belonged in that game. A Georgia fan would have posted something in your language...and it probably would've upset a lot of Hawaii fans. Now that you've changed hats, I guess it's easy to be on the other end of the script. I do agree that there are many reasons, but my point was to remind fans like you that you are on the other side of the fence for part of the year.

Adding and comparing scores holds little significance...Baldwin beat Farrington last year, Farrington beat Kahuku...ahhhh, Baldwin could've been state champs! Makes no sense to hold too much faith in that method. Good measuring stick, not a true indicator.

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by alleyezonme »

Neighbor wrote:Well yes but it's not like the stuff posted like the "All-Hawaii Depth Chart" is being posted in the newspaper or the magazine.
It's just a person's opinion based on what they've seen.
Come on, the newspaper or magazine is also the opinion of the writer.

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by HRC Paul »

This is a classic debate the reaches beyond sports. alleyezonme, I feel your pain. I lived on the Big Island for eight years, covered at least 100 BIIF football games, including a bunch in the Neighbor Island Football Classic long before the state tourney began.

1. Some coaches are aware of the Oahu-centric mentality in high school sports. Guys like Sam Papalii (Kealakehe) have often scheduled nonconference games against the brand-name institutions, including Punahou, in years past. Note that Papalii has returned to Kealakehe, whammo! They travel to Kailua, host Kamehameha and a Cali team (El Capitan). It's not just about getting attention, of course. Finding elite competition requires a greater effort. That's simple reality in the BIIF, where most programs are mid- to small-sized, which brings me to the next point ...

2. Population base. Anywhere you go, the majority rules most — if not all — of the time. I see this every June when the athletic directors meet in nice resorts and cast ballots on new measures. The majority (ILH and OIA) come from one island and they outnumber the rest of the state. So I've seen some amazing, original, great ideas — such as expanding the Division I state football tournament back to eight entries from the current six — get shot down by Oahu interests. It's a sight to see, sort of like Wily E. Coyote being happy to be crushed from above by an Acme Co. anvil. I say this, that the Neighbor Islands are in Road Runner territory because ...

3. Life on the Neighbor Islands is more expensive, but you do not have to sell your soul. Yes, traffic on Oahu is BRUTAL. People lose hours and hours every day just crawling through the thick hell of hundreds of thousands of cars, five days, six days (Saturdays suck too) a week. Meanwhile, in Kona, for example, traffic is awful after school and especially on Fridays (my friends say), but overall it's still light compared to Honolulu. People are still friendlier anywhere you go, as opposed to rude, obnoxious drivers and people on roads, in stores, etc. on Oahu. You can't buy aloha, and any attempt to do so has a negative effect eventually if you search deep enough down the food chain. So yes, Neighbor Islanders don't get all the attention, but in reality, you don't want the crap we have on Oahu. Ever. Be thankful for your relative isolation, having an ocean as a barrier, because ...

4. Isolation and Oahu-centricism helps set up the "big upset." Everyone can sort of scout OIA and ILH teams via OC16. But scouting Baldwin or Konawaena or Kapaa or Kauai requires a physical effort, paying for tickets, for hotel, car, etc. It doesn't stop coaches, but nothing makes things easier for a team than actually seeing their future opponent in person, which is what teams with a bye during the state tourney can do. Example: Baldwin had a bye, hosted Farrington, which didn't have the right game plan for the fastest QB they saw all year. Punahou scouted, made a simple adjustment (double spies on Ewaliko?) and won handily on Oahu.

It doesn't happen often, these upsets, but being relatively isolated, it's a plus. Really!

5. As for lists, they're fun to piece together and discuss, to debate with. But like almost all lists, including Top 10 team polls, they have the nutritional value of whipped cream, as I've always said. Fun to taste, but you can survive on a menu of it for every meal. A list of top players always has holes, that's the nature of it. So pick away and debate. It's fun.

The main challenge about being on the Neighbor Islands, my opinion, is the higher cost of living. But for the most part, there's more peace of mind. People aren't overcrowded, and there's something that goes off in our psyches when nearly 1 million people are bunched together permanently on horribly designed roadways. It's not how we are designed to function. NI - you can go to most beaches and they often aren't stacked with cars and people.

Enough blahblahblah. Next?

alleyezonme
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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by alleyezonme »

Nice Paul...now you sound like a person living in Los Angeles talking to a person living in Hawaii lol. You see how this all relates? Outer Island fan always stays in the same canoe...OIA/ILH fan is in the Hawaii canoe, then jumps on the High School Yacht. Paul, you're grounded cause you've been stuck in the canoe before :love7:

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by HRC Paul »

Well at least go look my little list and tell me if there's "enough" Neighbor Island guys on there. I really don't hold it against anybody for being a proponent for their home team and league. It's human nature. I'm not removing Maka Ah Loo from my Top 10 (now 15) Offensive Linemen just because he plays in the KIF.

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by alleyezonme »

No doubt, your list is as fair as can be. In fact, it is one of the few that actually give outer island players acknowledgment. If not for your list, most of the state wouldn't know who any of these players are. Very thankful for what you do!!!

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by jaySend »

alleyesonme I know how you feel, when you turn on the tv all you see is two teams from central oahu. commercials and in the lineup.
kahuku may as well be on an island too. the only reason people know about us is because we win.

keep coming on here and posting about your neighbor island team, let us know whos doing good and
what players are studs.

you can even b!thc-n-moan a little like how i do and maybe youll be heard, as seen on the 2012 poster

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...but notice how they still find a way to promote that central oahu school.

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by HRC Paul »

Thane Milhoan and his guys do a great job of getting BIIF sports online.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sportzviz/videos

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by KAILUABOYS96734 »

If OC 16 could do D2, outer islands, and ILH games that would be awesome.......

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by reignjah11 »

It doesn't help when a d2 team is the best team in Maui right now.

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Re: The Outer Island Struggle...

Post by saynotomercs »

alleyezonme wrote:I think we can all agree that we have a lot of Hawaii football fans in this forum. I would also assume that we are all in the same boat or familiar with the feeling of being a non-BCS team that never gets its fair share of respect. Through the years, we’ve had many good teams that were nationally ranked in the top 25, which also included All-American/Heisman candidates. We as Hawaii fans always push for the recognition of our players/team such as All-America/WAC teams or top 25 rankings…even qualifying for quality bowls which we are deserving of. We can all find claims of being ranked higher than another team ahead of us or one of “our” players being more deserving of an individual honor. The interesting part is…when it comes to high school football in Hawaii, we ditch the Hawaii boat and a good portion of fans put on the hat of the “big boys”. After the dust settles, teams on the outer islands (KIF, BIIF, MIL) continue the fight to prove themselves. I understand history or competition has a big part of this, but when we’re in Hawaii’s boat, don’t we disclaim history and competition ourselves? It’s so funny how I see “All-Hawaii Depth Charts” and there literally is one player outside of Oahu. There’s no question that the majority of the talent in the state lies on Oahu, but if you can’t give a fair assessment of all talent on all islands…what’s a list like this worth? Let’s metion that the only non-Oahu player on the list is only on there because he had a nationally ranked combine performance…if you were judging him on his on-field performance, you would know he’s not a corner back. It definitely makes for good discussion, but don’t forget how you feel as a Hawaii fan when you choose to put on the OIA or ILH hat.
1. I didn't constrain individual players to the position they play in real life. Kagawa is one of the state's best speed athletes, so he got the nod at corner. I wasn't even sure if Lavatai was fast enough to play corner at a top level outside of Hawaii. I almost put Kenan Ewaliko there.

2. Just so happens that Punahou, Saint Louis and Farrington are stacked with individual talent this season. And it's not like the Neighbor Island D-1 powers have shown well at all this pre-season. Baldwin was pathetic against Saint Louis and Kealakehe got smoked by a down Kamehameha squad and barely squeaked by a very mediocre Kailua team.

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