2011 High School track and field

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nogutsnoglory
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#211 Post by nogutsnoglory » Mon May 02, 2011 7:53 am

Saturday Night...Mostly clear. Lows around 66. Northeast winds 10 to 15 mph with gusts to 35 mph. It is going to be windy. The track sits right next to the ocean. If thats the case expect tactical races in the longer races. The sprints will be real fast due to the fact the wind will be at there backs.

RunJonPaulAMPM
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#212 Post by RunJonPaulAMPM » Tue May 03, 2011 1:35 am

State Performance List (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... YWM5Njg4OQ)
...incomplete - missing a few teams

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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#213 Post by RunJonPaulAMPM » Tue May 03, 2011 9:11 am

Some interesting stats from the State Performance List (incomplete version)
The events with the most automatic qualifiers entered:
Boys 800m - 18
Girls 100m - 14
The events with the most consideration qualifiers entered:
Boys 800m - 37
Girls 100hurdles and 100m - 34 each
The events with the least auto qualified:
boys triple jump - 3
girls 3000m - 4
events with least consideration:
boys pv -21 & 110 hurdles - 22
girls hj - 22
It makes you think about how well the current formula that determines the auto and consideration standards, captures the level of performances by the athletes competing in the year they are set.

kautech
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#214 Post by kautech » Tue May 03, 2011 12:40 pm

The Final Performance List of Accepted Entries for the 2011 HHSAA Track and Field Championship has been released and is available at

http://hi.milesplit.com/articles/66492

Shame on those who shared the "unofficial" performance lists to their websites. It is hurtful to athletes who visit those sites and see data that is not complete, only to find out later that their entry wasn't accepted

2LeftFeet
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#215 Post by 2LeftFeet » Tue May 03, 2011 2:18 pm

I think we are treading on unexplored territory here as far as performance lists, rankings and submitting entries goes. As technology has improved to the point where we are able to get results almost instantaneously from every meet in every league during the season, and with the recent implementation of automatic and consideration qualifying standards system, it becomes possible to know roughly whether an athlete is qualified for the State meet, give or take a few entries because of scheduling (proms, testing, etc.) or retaining JV status or other reasons.
Much like they don't announce vote tallies from the east coast of the US while polls are still open on the west coast and Hawaii, it is unfair to release any performance lists and submitted entries early, as it gives other teams the opportunity to place athletes in events for a more favorable outcome individually as well as for scoring in team points.
But then again, leagues like the OIA and KIF who have their championships a week earlier, are at a disadvantage, because the remaining leagues have the advantage of knowing what the 26th place times and marks are and may displace those athletes from the leagues whose regular season is completed, with no opportunity to achieve the necessary ranking to qualify. We may eventually see meets on Sunday or on the 11th hour on Monday just to get in the last possible qualifying time or mark.
Since previous seasons teams and athletes could only guess whether or not they would be in the top 32 qualifiers, with the current system of qualifying there needs to be policies and regulations in place to ensure everyone has a fair opportunity to qualify for the State Championships.

roadkillracoon
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#216 Post by roadkillracoon » Tue May 03, 2011 2:37 pm

I think its hurtful to charge an athlete $36 to look at their rankings on a site to see if their consideration time gets them into states, only to find out that it doesn't!

train hard win easy
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#217 Post by train hard win easy » Tue May 03, 2011 8:47 pm

All the results for all the track meets are free. Just look them up, put all the information for all the track meets every weekend on a spread sheet and figure out where you stand, easy? Or support Milesplit and pay Bob. He works hard for our Hawaii students. $36? Get over it.

whoewa70
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#218 Post by whoewa70 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:39 pm

For me rankings are ok and so are performance lists. I hate having kids who qualify, and not just barely either, then pay for their own trip to Maui and then cannot compete. These rankings and performance lists rob kids of opportunities. Put out a list earlier to give the kids a more realistic expectation. Also only AUTO qualifiers get a stipend from the OIA.

In the end they jump thru the hoops and we cut their lines. Give them false hope. There has to be a better way, especially financially. We as coaches have to make the travel arrangements or lose out. OIA had their championship two weeks before States and it still got screwed up. Also entries submitted need to be used, not performance lists. I know a girl who wasn't entered by her team but is still on the official list. How does that happen? Please fix the system. At least allow alternates for the performance list. You know kids are going to scratch at the meet anyway.

Just my point of view, one of many I'm sure. We should err on the side of the kids. Let them compete...get sponsors to help pay for it. How does a $90 stipend only for automatic qualifiers in the OIA help, with airfare alone being $65 one way??? Now we have all these "CONS" paying for it all on their on, and they might not even be able to compete.

SubFore
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#219 Post by SubFore » Tue May 03, 2011 10:37 pm

roadkillracoon wrote:I think its hurtful to charge an athlete $36 to look at their rankings on a site to see if their consideration time gets them into states, only to find out that it doesn't!
You're not going to get much simpathy here if you're going to pick on Kautech - Bob Martin! The guy is one of the hallowed names in Hawaii running. The service he provides to our community is priceless. Any compensation that he receives from MileSplit is well-deserved, and will never come close to compensating him for his time! All of the links he provides here cost you nothing to follow. Personally, I think you should buy a subscription to MileSplit HI in an effort to say you're sorry! :wink:

It's been a great season with lots of competitive throws, jumps and times. I'm really looking forward to the State Meet. See all of you on Maui this weekend.

milhstrack
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#220 Post by milhstrack » Wed May 04, 2011 12:15 am

There's two issues here: the cost of access to the rankings compiled by Bob Martin posted on the Milesplit site and the early posting of the incomplete state performance list.
I've been coaching for close to 30 years and prior to the internet and use of computer programs for meet results and meet timing, have always tried to put together rankings from whatever scraps of information available from OIA and ILH meet results and whatever was reported in the papers from the other leagues on the other islands, just to get a rough idea of where our athletes should be placed when submitting entries for states. About 12 years ago I created the webpage for the Mililani Track team and started posting results and whatever rankings I could put together as a resource for our team. Others had discovered the site and had started using it as a resource also, which is fine by me as long as they understood that it was unofficial and was meant to be a team site only. At the time I was in a position where I could spend the time collecting and putting together all of the results and rankings from whatever info I was able to get from meets in the state, but it was hard work and did take up a lot of time. It’s probably a little bit easier now with all of the leagues results in the Meet Manager/Team Manager format and with all of the leagues cooperating by contributing results, but it still is a time consuming task. It’s up to Bob Martin whether he wants to put up the results of the information he has worked on collecting, configuring and formatting on the MileSplit site, requiring a fee for access, just as its everyone's choice whether they want to pay that fee for access to that information. If you have a chance to look at all the features of the site, even the areas that don't require the membership fee, it is a very useful resource and we do owe a lot to Bob Martin for his work organizing an putting everything together. On the team pages you can access information on results for individual athletes, which can be a useful resource for college coaches or media needing information on a specific athlete. Things like that can only help to promote the sport and give visibility to Hawaii athletes.
As far as posting the early copy of the performance list, it was released to certain privileged persons involved with the state meet and was posted on the OIA site. I copied it to the Mililani site because I wanted our athletes to get an idea of where they stood, not by their overall rankings, but by the submitted entries to the state meet. As a coach, you want to help your athletes set realistic goals and implement a plan to help them to achieve them. As far as qualifying standards go, we tell our athletes that their goal should not just be to achieve the time or mark, but to exceed it, since they are also competing with the rest of the state and it takes more than just achieving the qualifying standard to get into the state championship. You can’t go by any rankings, results or performance lists, because you can’t be 100% certain what events a team, coach or athlete will enter into, based on what they are trying to accomplish at states. Some athletes are entered in events because it’s their preference, or because it helps their team standings, or because it’s their best shot at getting a medal. I can’t speak for the KIF, but one of the reasons the OIA wanted a bye week between their championships and the state meet was to allow enough time to be able to organize their travel plans. Even though there is an uncertainty about whether a certain athlete will be able to compete, you have to figure that their hard work throughout the season achieving a certain time or mark within the state qualifying standard, does deserve them the reward of going on the state trip, but that is an issue that is up to each team and each coach. As far as the stipend that the OIA provides, that is a league issue and is also probably influenced by the limitations of the current economy and state budget, and should be examined and discussed at the league evaluation meeting.
...oh and good luck to all the athlete who are fortunate enough to be competing at states this year. See you on Maui!

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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#221 Post by hzy » Wed May 04, 2011 9:20 am

The shame should be put on those teams that didn't put their entries in on time, not the websites posting results that should have been complete by the time they were posted. I know of at least 2 teams, one of which that has a number of top athletes, that was extremely late in getting in their entries. What's the point of a deadline of people can choose not to follow it?

Whoewa70- Which is it? You first say the rankings and performance lists are okay, but then you talk about how these rankings and performance lists rob kids of opportunities and that they should be put out earlier.

1) They would be put out earlier if they were free
2) The official list would be released earlier if people got their entries in when they are supposed to.

2LeftFeet
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#222 Post by 2LeftFeet » Wed May 04, 2011 11:05 am

There are currently 4 variations of the State Performance List:
1) The early incomplete version that was missing teams like Seabury (no longer posted)
2) The May 3, 11:23 AM version with the non-qualifiers removed, currently on the OIA Site, and
3) The May 3, 6:33 PM version which still has the non-qualifiers and has some changes and additions, such as Hanalani's entries.
4) The one on the Mililani Team site appears to be the same as the MileSplit list, minus the non-qualifiers.

HI2OProvider
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#223 Post by HI2OProvider » Wed May 04, 2011 11:25 am

Since Kautech/Bob Martin/Milesplit is providing a service that should be provided by the HHSAA, I think they should compensate him for the work he does, and open up the site to the leagues and coaches who require the info to help perform their duties, but still allow Bob to make whatever revenue he can from others who want access to the site.

whoewa70
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#224 Post by whoewa70 » Wed May 04, 2011 5:58 pm

First of all...thanks to KauTech/ Bob Martin for his hardwork putting out all the info he does on Milesplit.

Second...I don't think it's a shame that others like milhstrack or the oia website put out performance lists/rankings. All athletes want to know where they stand. If not we wouldn't have polls or stats in any sports. Yes it hurts when someone takes the information in the wrong way...namely qualifying for any championship.

I hope we all have some thick skin or we shouldn't be posting at all, but I just hope I haven't offended anyone. My point to HZY is that performance lists are okay but we need to figure a way to make the process clearer so that we all as coaches, parents, athletes know who will be competing at the state meet. I would love to reward all my athletes who make the CONS qualifying time with a trip to Maui, but financially unfortunately I cannot. Also talking about the stipend from the league affected by the economy, how about how the economy affecting the parents' ability to send their child to Maui?? Setting up travel plans at the last minute costs more money than planning ahead...then try explaining to the parents that by the way "your child will not be participating, they didn't make the top 26."

I just hope it gets better, of course it will never be perfect. How about at least allowing alternates for trials?? In the end isn't this about the kids. Congrats to all you student-athletes who qualified for states, be it AUTO or CONS. You all did awesome and have a great time on Maui.

nogutsnoglory
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Re: 2011 High School track and field

#225 Post by nogutsnoglory » Thu May 05, 2011 9:25 am

Just wanted to tell Bob you do a great job. And yes what you do is worth $36. putting the stats all together each week must be a ton of work. Bob is like DyeStat Cal to Hawaii. Hate to break up the party but has anyone noticed the weather on Maui. I would suggest bringing your rain gear and plenty of tents.

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