2010 Cross Country

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800runner
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by 800runner »

Went to ILH meet yesterday at Waipio Soccer Complex. The run was timed, but I haven't been able to find official results yet. Here is what I got.

Girls 3 mile: Kyleigh Mann of Punahou wins in a fairly close race over 2 Iolani girls in about 19:mid. Followed by a large pack of Punahou mixed with 1 Iolani and 1 Kamehameha girl. If this race was scored (I think only individual times), Punahou girls win easily over Iolani then Kamehameha. Defending state champion Elli Brady did not race. Anyone know why? Injury? Needed time off? Holding off on racing in expectation of a long season?

Boys: Jordan Thibodeau of Kamehameha wins with a decent lead, time about 17:low. Ryan Hobson of MPI, Troy Esaki of Iolani finish 2nd and 3rd. Followed by a mix of mostly Iolani and Kamehameha with 1 Saint Louis and 1 Punahou. If this race was scored, Iolani probably won with Kamehameha close behind. It was close enough that I don't know for sure.

The course was extremely hot yesterday. The races were run at about 10:30 for the girls and 11:00 for the boys. Lots of sun, no cloud cover. I'm pretty sure this course is exactly 3 miles because unlike many other loop courses, the start line can be moved back and forth along with the turnaround to make an exact distance much more easily than other courses.

train hard win easy
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by train hard win easy »

Bob, the times you got from Basil for the boys race are wrong. The lady at the computer pushed the start button 11 seconds before the gun went off. Just ask Basil. It would only be fair to record the correct times for the boys on your site. Pierce ran a 15:59. There was more then one clock on him. Just trying to keep your site reliable. Thanks for your site.

kautech
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by kautech »

re: the Waimea Invitational ... official results indicate 16:10 ... I cannot change the official results ... only the event officials can do that ...

-bm

run
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by run »

Kamehameha won the waipio meet 23 30

800runner
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by 800runner »

Thanks run. I wasn't really sure. I had to just guess. Do you know where I can find results?

hzy
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by hzy »

I posted this question a while back but the topic didn't garner much interest. I am curious about people's perspectives on this topic of Margarito's age. As stated, he is 2 years older than Peirce, even though they are both seniors. Is it just me or is it a little weird that Margarito will be competing this year as a 19 year old? That's a man competing against boys. I know it is within the rules, but it is still odd. Shouldn't it be a rule that you can't be 19 by the time of a state competition maybe? It especially strikes me as inequitable because in Hawaii you have a lot of young kids for the grades they are in (compared to the mainland). Most states don't do school admissions based on being born between December and December, but instead based on a school year calender (August to August). This means you don't have a lot of 18 year olds in high school, let alone 19 year olds. This means that Margarito will be competing against kids that are mostly at least 2 years younger than him. Does that sound fair?

By the way, this topic has been brought up with his parents on the Big Dog Blog and his father has confirmed he will shortly turn 19.

mnxc21
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by mnxc21 »

the post by that sk23 seems understandable on big dogs blog.

OIAcoach
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by OIAcoach »

If it didn't garner much interest the last time why post it again? I'm sure there are alot of runners older then 17 in the state meet. There might be some 18 year old runners.. and who knows maybe some other 19 year old runners. And why would you bring up a topic that offends parents? I had a chance to speak with Margarito about his workouts. You should talk to him. He wins not because of his age, but because he works hard. I have no more to say to that.

Haven't seen the official results yet but I did see the PC video (Thanks Edwin). Looks like Leilehua, Mililani and Pearl City has great teams. Throw Kamehameha and Iolani in the mix, should make a good race. Can't wait till the Iolani meet.

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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by hzy »

Sorry, but I am not bringing up the topic of age qualifications in order to personally attack individuals. I just feel it is a topic to be considered for review, as are any rules that affect the field of competition.

CCfan
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by CCfan »

I have no problem with a high school athlete being 19 yrs old during the season, as long as it is within the rules set by the state and the league, and as long as there was no intention to purposely circumvent the rules by the parties involved. A lot of military student-athletes have this dilemma when they have to transfer from one duty station to the next, during the school year, where the move causes them to be unable to complete the requirements of the grade they're in, or are attending overseas schools where their transcripts or credits don't transfer to the next education system they encounter at their new school. If anything, this lifestyle of relocating to a new school every three years or so, is disruptive to the student-athlete, and causes a discontinuity in training as they have to adjust to new coaches, new training philosophies and new training partners and teammates.
Just because this particular athlete is successful and happens to be turning 19 before the state championship, should not be cause for changing the rules. If a large percentage of the top athletes in the state were turning 19, or historically there were an unnaturally high number of 19 year olds dominating the state championships, then you might be able to make a case to change the rule.
If you are going to argue that 19 year olds are like men competing against boys, then you can also make an argument against the starting age of athletes, because they would have the "unfair" advantage of being more experienced than athletes who've only started competing in the sport at high school. In that case, many of the ILH schools would definitely have an "unfair "advantage, because of the programs they have at the elementary and intermediate school levels that gives their athletes early exposure and experience at various sports. The fact of the matter is that in competitive sports, the goal is to prepare, work and train hard to gain an advantage, within the rules, over the competition. The rules are set to "level the playing field", but there shouldn't be an effort to limit athletes who exceed expectations or whose achievements are beyond the rest of the field, because of the hard work and dedication they are willing to put into the sport. Before he was even close to turning 19, Martinez of Leilehua was competing at the State Championship caliber level(12th in 2007, 4th in 2008, 1st in 2009) most likely influenced by the previous successes and work ethic of his teammates and coaches at Leilehua, not because of his age.

hixcchik
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by hixcchik »

the PC results are up on the Mililani page now.

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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by train hard win easy »

Margarito makes the cut off by 9 days. It's pretty black and white. He's good to run. And for what it's worth that's fine with me. Kids like Jordon and Pierce welcome the challege. Knowing Margarito is out there training hard only motivates them to go the extra mile. Margarito is a great runner, and he will bring out the great runners to challege him. If you're running cross country in Hawaii, you know what you have to do, "Beat Margarito".

whoewa70
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by whoewa70 »

Like previously stated....Margarito meets the qualification and I'm glad someone brought up the point about Military kids. As for being too old as might be insinuated, would you let my son in turn because he started 9th grade too early compete an extra year? LOL. Just kidding on that point. I've talked with Pierce and Margarito over the summer, never about the other, but about their training. And I know they are both training hard for this season. In the end it all comes down to a matter of pride. Who will win? Who will be the best this year? Going back to the earliest posts....for sure it's going to be a very exciting cross country season for the boys and girls. Keep training and stay injury-free. Good Luck to all.

800runner
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by 800runner »

The age argument is not a particularly strong one. The physical maturation of typical males between the ages of 17 and 19 is not huge. In fact, most males in this age range do not grow much more. The only perceptible and significant potential for change is through increased training. As a runner develops aerobically, times will improve. However, age after puberty does not usually make a huge difference. It is the amount of time put into training to develop a runner to a higher aerobic capacity level. Most 15 year olds cannot train at the intensity of 18 year olds simply because they do not have the aerobic capacity to match that of the 18 year old, who has had 3 extra years of aerobic building.
If you want an example of a 17 year old succeeding over older competition, German Fernandez (California, class of 2008) was a mere 17 years old when he ran a national record breaking 2 mile in about 8:34, winning a National championship. At the California state meet he doubled the 1600m and 3200m in record times, including a 4:00 1600m (#2 All time California) followed by an 8:34 3200m less than 3 hours later. Then, as an 18 year old, he ran a 3:55 indoor mile, to set the World Junior Record, and then won the 1500m at NCAA's.

Hzy, I assure you that any title contender has been training hard all summer. The age issue is hardly relevant to the talent and work ethic of Margarito Martinez that produces such fantastic results. It is also irrelevant to the talent and work ethic leading to the success of his competitors.

IfYouRun
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Re: 2010 Cross Country

Post by IfYouRun »

If age difference amongst the teenage years during high school really does matter hzy, how do you account for Freshman States winner Ellie Brady last year or Bryce Jenkins winning States as a sophmore? By your interpretation the older, stronger, athletes, 2 and 3 years older then them, should have won those races. But they didn't. The faster, stronger, most determined and better trained and coached athlete won. As it should be.

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